On dialogue

A Call to Join Efforts with Other Religions in the Search for Peace and theIntegrity of CreationInterview with the LWF President Bishop emeritus Dr Christian KrauseGENEVA, 10 July 2003 (LWI) - The global communion of Lutheranchurches is faced with challenging task of seeking, together withother religions, "paths toward peace and the integrity ofcreation," the president of the Lutheran World Federation (LWF),Bishop emeritus Dr Christian Krause said in an interview withLutheran World Information (LWI).Krause reminded Christian churches and other religiouscommunities of their obligation to be actively engaged in thefight against poverty, injustice and all forms of violence insociety.The interview was a reflection on his six-year term in office.Krause was appointed as LWF President at the 1997 Ninth Assemblyin Hong Kong, China. His term ends after the 21-31 July 2003Tenth Assembly in Winnipeg, Canada.He pointed out that on the basis of its unique experience, theLWF should explore in interreligious dialogue, the extent towhich the model of reconciled diversity is possible beyond thefellowship of Christians - in the fellowship among religions. Heexpressed hope that the LWF together with the other confessionalworld communions, and the World Council of Churches would be ableto combine the critical functions of theology with the missionaryrevival of the more charismatic churches and communities.The full text of the interview with LWF President Krause follows:Interview with the LWF President Bishop emeritus Dr ChristianKrauseLWI: Dr Krause, in July 1997, at the Ninth Assembly of theLutheran World Federation (LWF) in Hong Kong, you were electedLWF President. What hopes, desires and visions did you have asyou took office six years ago, at the 50th anniversary of theLWF?Krause: I had already been close to the Lutheran World Federationfor a good part of its 50 years, since 1966, when I becameresearch assistant in the Department for Theology in Geneva. Iwas aware of the great variety of the LWF's tasks from my ownexperience, not only in its theological work but also later as astaff person of the Tanganyika Christian Refugee Service, andfinally in my position on the LWF National Committee in Germany.Thus my desires and visions were concentrated on progress atthese different levels. Of course I especially had the dialoguewith the Roman Catholic Church in mind, with the hope that therewould be steps forward there as well as throughout the ecumenicalmovement.It has always been a particular concern of mine to see the LWF,not as fenced off from the other confessions or the ecumenicalcommunity, but rather in all its openness, and to develop theecumenical dimension of the confessional body. Of course thisincluded the particular situation in the world. The NinthAssembly took place relatively soon after the great revolutionarychange of 1989-90, which resulted in a new openness and removingboundaries, and this brought us the new challenges emerging fromconcerns such as globalization. We were confronted on one handwith numerous dangers, on the other, with new opportunitiesthrough electronic communications and cross-border trade.What was especially present to me in Hong Kong was the world-widenetwork of the LWF with its emphasis on direct diaconal action,its missionary approach to the Gospel, its theological profileand, as I said, especially its ecumenical breadth and openness.LWI: At your first press conference as LWF President, on 14 July1997 in Hong Kong, you said that confessional communities such asthe LWF had become more important than ever for the ecumenicalmovement. You warned against a pullback, since dialogues such asthe one on the doctrine of justification with the Roman CatholicChurch in particular are only possible between confessionalfamilies. What would your judgment be today?Krause: There is of course no question that, obviously,confessional issues have to be discussed and clarified betweenconfessional churches. Thus in reassessing the history oftheology and the church, dialogue between the historic churchesand confessions is extraordinarily important. To me it isespecially significant that the confessional world communionshave become more visible in recent years, and are reaching outmore to one another.The Roman Catholic Church, the churches of the Reformation, thatis the Reformed and Lutheran world bodies, the AnglicanCommunion, the Orthodox churches - these are important andindispensable poles especially for interconfessionalconversations, for seeking together, for the ecumenicalfellowship as a whole and thus also for the World Council ofChurches.LWI: On 31 October 1999 you were in Augsburg, Germany as one ofthe signatories to the Official Common Statement with which theJoint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification was solemnlyrecognized by the LWF and Roman Catholic Church. The dialoguewhich finally led to the Joint Declaration had lasted over 30years. Was this signing ceremony a high point of your presidency?Krause: For me, the 31 October 1999 is an extraordinarilyimportant date. The 30 years of dialogue show not only itssignificance, but also that it was high time for theseconversations, for at least a start towards overcoming thisalmost 500-year-old division. Augsburg was the place where, in1530, the rejection of the Confessio Augustana marked the failureof the last attempt at bridge-building. The dispute that followedcaused immeasurable suffering, enmities, the Counter-Reformation,the Thirty Years' War - one could go on and on. There was misuseof power in all sorts of ways, the Reformation was made aninstrument of politics and especially of conflict between thechurches of the Reformation and the Roman Catholic Church.What is remarkable is that the two sides in the dialogue havereached a consensus on basic truths. We are not trying tomonopolize the truth over against one another, but rather namingtogether that which is at the core of the Gospel, that is,justification by grace alone through faith, which is the centralsignificance of God's act of salvation. Nevertheless, the signingof the Joint Declaration does not mark a full stop, but rather acolon: we now have a basis on which to go further, and we must doso. The concept of reconciled diversity underlines our newrelationship after the long age of enmity.The signing of the Joint Declaration also showed that thecommunity within the LWF stands firmly together and, can take aunanimous position even in the face of differing opinions.LWI: What did the signing of the Joint Declaration change forLutheran and Catholic Christians? Just recently, at your farewellvisit to Pope John Paul II, you urged once again more intensiveefforts toward at least ecumenical hospitality at the Eucharist.Had you expected visible results to come sooner?Krause: My exhortation to move toward sharing the Eucharist, atleast in the sense of mutual ecumenical hospitality at the Lord'sTable, still stands. This is such a central witness to theChristian faith we share that I think we have reason to keepmentioning it. But I think it is completely wrong to concentrateexclusively on that which we do not yet have.We ought also to recognize all that which has already beenachieved. It is absolutely crucial that we are able to meettogether and have dealings with one another in mutual respect andalso in mutual trust. There will always continue to be setbacks,as is the nature of things among human beings and humaninstitutions. But I must say that the consensus on the basictruths of the faith has brought about a reconciliation andreadiness to meet one another which I can only describe asgratifying. In spite of all the differences which still remain,we must not lose sight of what we have in common.During my farewell visit in April with Pope John Paul II in Rome,and in my conversations with Walter Cardinal Kasper, I not onlyput a full emphasis on the question of the Eucharist, but alsoexpressly thanked them for standing with us on peace issues, forexample in our common actions with regard to the Iraq War and ourcommon stand on peace in the Middle East.In many countries in the world, Lutheran churches arecomparatively small compared to the Roman Catholic Church. Oftenthey have deliberately distanced themselves from one another inthe past. Since the signing of the Joint Declaration on theDoctrine of Justification I have experienced on many of mytravels throughout the world, that people now are no longerafraid to approach one another, and haven't simply filed away theJoint Declaration but are actively making use of it. They areholding joint worship services, and the churches are making theeffort to establish joint positions on political and socialissues which have to do with people's lives. I consider thesedevelopments as extraordinarily important.LWI: When you took office in 1997, the LWF had 122 memberchurches in 70 countries, with a total membership of about 57million; today it represents 136 member churches in 76 countries,with over 61.7 million members. What do you see as the continuingappeal that the LWF has?Krause: What is even more impressive is the number of foundingchurches. The LWF was founded in 1947 by 47 churches in 23countries. It then means that with regard to numbers of bothmember churches and countries, the LWF has almost tripled insize. But these figures also represent massive shifts insubstance. With few exceptions, the founding churches wereEuropean and North American, thus almost exclusively northAtlantic. Since 1947 the LWF's global network has extendedsubstantially to churches and countries in the southernhemisphere; there has been a shift in its center of gravity fromthe North toward the South. This seems to me to be the reallyserious difference, with considerable consequences for substance,both theological and ecclesiological.Our member churches are all looking for community, and the LWFoffers a community. Many of them are small, are isolated, andhave to find their way in their own countries and surroundings.For guidance, they look to their sister churches in neighboringcountries and throughout the world. In responding to the socialchallenges in their own local contexts, these churches alsoreceive support just like their governments do, and they canemphatically say, "We may be small, but we belong to a greatworld-wide communion."LWI: Since the 1984 Seventh Assembly in Budapest, Hungary, theLWF no longer sees itself as a loose federation, but as acommunion of churches. The new LWF Constitution adopted in 1990in Curitiba, Brazil says so. Is the LWF doing justice to thispurpose, and what are the consequences of thisself-understanding?Krause: That's an exciting question. That a greater degree ofcommunion, or of commitment, has been reached became visible in asustained way with regard to the signing of the Joint Declarationon the Doctrine of Justification. The LWF had to ask all themember churches, and they in turn had to involve their synods, ifthey were so constituted. And the vote was not absolutelyunanimous among all the member churches. The question then was,who decides? The recommendation of the overwhelming majority tothe LWF Council, after a careful theological evaluation of thevotes received, was to sign the Joint Declaration. The Councilthen voted unanimously in favor, and not one of the memberchurches protested. The communion stood the test.The question may be asked, how much authority is entrusted to acommunion by its individual churches. This was certainly a pointon which it became clear that here a stronger obligation was notonly desired; it was also possible. With regard to the discussionas to whether the LWF should call itself a communio, I am of theopinion that this needs to be defined very carefully. A higherdegree of commitment and of obligation to the LWF Communionshould in no case be expressed, first of all, in a strongercentralization in Geneva. We don't want and don't need a"Lutheran Rome."For me the critical questions are rather: can we take a stand onthe challenging issues of our day, and in doing so rely on oneanother and sustain our commitment to and for one another? Willour churches and people, in the midst of such bitter poverty aswe see reigning in two-thirds of the world, be willing to makestatements as a community - can they and should they haveconfidence in such a process? Or are these just emptydeclarations? It will be important to give a clear theologicalanswer to the question of what is the basis of our communio andwhether everyone shares in this. It is my impression that thegrowing differences between North and South, the economic gapbetween the winners and victims of globalization, as well as whatwe see in the ecumenical gap between the historic churches andthe charismatic communities, are the decisive test for such acommunio.LWI: While the Lutheran churches of the South are growing, someof them considerably, the membership figures of almost all thebig Lutheran churches in North America and Europe are continuingto decrease. What do you think is the cause of these contrastingdevelopments, and what can the churches learn from one another?Krause: In the churches of the North, our existential questionsare either very individualistic or out of touch with public life.In the South it's different. Questions of faith are alwaysdirected to the community and its life in common, and itssurvival. There is also a very natural relationship to themission of the church, and a totally natural way of carrying itout. Talking about one's own position as a believer, and livingaccording to it, is a matter of course and is not questioned inthe South.Many of the churches that have recently joined the LWF have grownout of the missions in Africa, for example the mission of thechurch in Tanzania or Namibia. This also plays a role in theirsocieties, in making the witness to Christ public, includingclear statements of one's positions; in expressing it in lively,colorful worship, and in taking for granted the witness to one'spersonal Christianity. This is what we in the North have oftenlost.Currently, the fastest growing Lutheran churches, and otherhistoric churches are those which succeed in integrating thecharismatic movements into their church lives. In the same periodof 30 years, the membership of the Evangelical Lutheran Church inBrunswick, Germany has dropped nearly 40 per cent, from about670,000 to 420,000, while in Ethiopia it has multiplied sixtimes, starting from 670,000, to over four million.Of course this raises the question of who is changing whom andwhat this means for the confessional world communion. The greatawakening of the charismatic faith movements in the southernhemisphere can only be seen, in my opinion, in the context ofpoverty and suffering. The Gospel is the Gospel of the poor, andthe cross is the sign of the church. It is in suffering that hopeappears, hope of overcoming sorrow and poverty. Entering into newlife through the cross - that is precisely opposed to thepleasure-seeking society.Moreover, we are faced today with the central task of finding ourway to an interreligious dialogue, of seeking, together withother religions, paths towards peace and the valuing of thecreation, and involving ourselves together in overcoming poverty,injustice and violence. It's the famous triad of justice, peaceand the integrity of creation. Here it is imperative that wereach out to one another with respect, with eagerness, and withthe desire to know one another. Equally important is to clarifyour own position: what do we actually stand for? And that'ssomething we can learn from the churches of the South - to takeour stand quite naturally on our own faith convictions, which arerooted in our own hearts, in public as well. In interreligiousdialogue, the LWF on the basis of its unique experience, shouldexplore to what extent the model of reconciled diversity ispossible beyond the fellowship of Christians, in the fellowshipamong religions.LWI: In the past six years you in person have visited many LWFmember churches. You have been to churches in every continent, inalmost every country of central and eastern Europe, and you werethe first LWF President to visit the churches of Papua NewGuinea. What impression have you gained of the world-wideLutheran community, and what have you been able to set in motionduring your travels?Krause: I have again and again experienced a great feeling thatwe all belong together, a downright family feeling, andunbelievable hospitality. To be at home everywhere where thereare Lutheran churches was a great, a marvelous feeling, for whichI am deeply grateful.The second point is that during my travels I have been ableemphasize over and over again to people that: You are part of agreater whole. In central and eastern Europe that has played amost important role at a practical level, there where the smallLutheran churches in the former countries behind the Iron Curtainhave to get their bearings all over again in post-communistsocieties. This touches almost all aspects of church life. Itincludes rebuilding their diaconal work, which in not a fewplaces was prohibited; pastoral work in prisons and the military,religious teaching in schools, church festivals and much more.Here the churches are also beginning to look at their role in thenew process of Europe's reunification.In many countries the visit of the LWF President was a time forconversations at the highest political level. This presented anopportunity to strengthen the governments' and political leaders'awareness of the important bridge-building function whichchurches can have within their own countries. One example isIndonesia, the country with the largest Muslim population in theworld and not inconsiderable tensions between Christians andMuslims. Here I was able to speak both with President Megawatiand with the leaders of Islamic organizations. Doors could beopened in a way, often not possible locally for the smallerchurches. These experiences gave me a feel for the importance,for these churches, of belonging to a world communion and ofmaking its presence known.I have always thought of my visits also as expressly pastoral. Itwas clear that I could not accept every invitation. But I gavepriority to those from churches which were going through adifficult time or faced immediate challenges, for exampleLutheran churches which were or are threatened with schism. Hereit is important that we from the world-wide communion can atleast offer a table at which the parties to the conflict can sitdown together.LWI: The Ninth Assembly in 1997 had the theme "In Christ - Calledto Witness" - it was the last Assembly of the 20th century andthe first on the continent of Asia. What do you hope will be theimpetus of the Tenth Assembly in Winnipeg, Canada, July 21-31, onthe theme "For the Healing of the World"?Krause: The theme of the Tenth Assembly is surprisingly andextraordinarily relevant for today. After the revolution of1989-90, we hoped we had come closer together. The East-Westconflict was over, walls had fallen down and thresholds werebeing lowered. And then burst forth those things which weprobably hadn't noticed properly, hidden under the crust of theEast-West conflict - the huge rift between rich and poor,disregard for human rights, conflicts between religions and newoutbreaks of violence. This means that "For the Healing of theWorld" must be an occasion for us to see where the decisivebreaks, wounds and cracks are which weigh us down and demand ourattention.The second very crucial point is to make it clear whence our helpcomes. Here the doctrine of justification will again play anessential role, also in its social ethics aspect: there is nojustice without grace. We must truly pray to God for the healingof the world, hope for it and expect it from God, and thus setout together to be Jesus' disciples.LWI: How do you see the future? In the year 2017 the Lutherancommunion will celebrate the 500th anniversary of the beginningof the Reformation: in 2022 the LWF will celebrate its 75thanniversary. Where will the LWF be by then; how may it havechanged and developed?Krause: Well, there we can only speak in terms of a vision. Isuspect that the movements of the South will cause parochial waysof being church, with their institutions and structures, torecede further in favor of spiritual movements. Even thetraditional well-ordered Lutheran churches will become more likespiritual revival churches. They may become smaller in theprocess, but I think they will come to have more the character ofmovements. Here a Lutheran World Federation must be first of allthe linking place, and have a serving function, to makeworld-wide communion possible in such a process.This will go together with a reduction in the role of the LWF asan inter-church service organization. The main question will be,what can each of us contribute, from our situation, that we canshare with others? And how do we preserve our communio on thecommon foundation of Reformation theology? More use must be madeof the global aspect of this tool we have in our hands, the LWF.This will also help to promote communion amongst our ecumenicalpartners.How the WCC changes will also make a lot of difference. It toowill have to take in more of the charismatic, spiritualistmovements, as it is already making efforts to do. I hope that astronger association will be possible with them, and that the LWFtogether with the other confessional world communions and the WCCwill be able to combine the critical functions of theology withthe missionary revival of the more charismatic churches andcommunities.What I also hope for is that we can sit down at one table withpeople of the different religions and seek ways to peace. In thisconnection I hope that a Lutheran World Federation, however itmay be put together as an organization, will contribute to thedefense against every form of fundamentalism, and will help topromote common positions for world peace. So it is there that Isee the future of the LWF: to serve as a platform for dialogue,but not just for dialogue's sake, but for the sake of life. Thatwould be a changed, a very active Lutheran World Federation, andcertainly no longer a primarily North Atlantic one.(LWI Editor Dirk-Michael Groetzsch, conducted the original Germanlanguage interview with the LWF President, Bishop emeritus DrChristian Krause.)(The LWF is a global communion of Christian churches in theLutheran tradition. Founded in 1947 in Lund (Sweden), the LWF nowhas 136 member churches in 76 countries representing over 61.7million of the 65.4 million Lutherans worldwide. The LWF acts onbehalf of its member churches in areas of common interest such asecumenical and interfaith relations, theology, humanitarianassistance, human rights, communication, and the various aspectsof mission and development work. Its secretariat is located inGeneva, Switzerland.)[Lutheran World Information (LWI) is LWF's information service.Unless specifically noted, material presented does not representpositions or opinions of the LWF or of its various units. Wherethe dateline of a article contains the notation (LWI), thematerial may be freely reproduced with acknowledgment.]* * *LUTHERAN WORLD INFORMATIONPO Box 2100, CH-1211 Geneva 2, SwitzerlandEnglish Editor: Pauline MumiaE-mail: pmu@lutheranworld.orgTel: (41.22) 791.63.54Fax: (41.22) 791.66.30http://www.lutheranworld.org/
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A Call to Join Efforts with Other Religions in the Search for Peace and theIntegrity of CreationInterview with the LWF President Bishop emeritus Dr Christian KrauseGENEVA, 10 July 2003 (LWI) - The global communion of Lutheranchurches is faced with challenging task of seeking, together withother religions, "paths toward peace and the integrity ofcreation," the president of the Lutheran World Federation (LWF),Bishop emeritus Dr Christian Krause said in an interview withLutheran World Information (LWI).Krause reminded Christian churches and other religiouscommunities of their obligation to be actively engaged in thefight against poverty, injustice and all forms of violence insociety.The interview was a reflection on his six-year term in office.Krause was appointed as LWF President at the 1997 Ninth Assemblyin Hong Kong, China. His term ends after the 21-31 July 2003Tenth Assembly in Winnipeg, Canada.He pointed out that on the basis of its unique experience, theLWF should explore in interreligious dialogue, the extent towhich the model of reconciled diversity is possible beyond thefellowship of Christians - in the fellowship among religions. Heexpressed hope that the LWF together with the other confessionalworld communions, and the World Council of Churches would be ableto combine the critical functions of theology with the missionaryrevival of the more charismatic churches and communities.The full text of the interview with LWF President Krause follows:Interview with the LWF President Bishop emeritus Dr ChristianKrauseLWI: Dr Krause, in July 1997, at the Ninth Assembly of theLutheran World Federation (LWF) in Hong Kong, you were electedLWF President. What hopes, desires and visions did you have asyou took office six years ago, at the 50th anniversary of theLWF?Krause: I had already been close to the Lutheran World Federationfor a good part of its 50 years, since 1966, when I becameresearch assistant in the Department for Theology in Geneva. Iwas aware of the great variety of the LWF's tasks from my ownexperience, not only in its theological work but also later as astaff person of the Tanganyika Christian Refugee Service, andfinally in my position on the LWF National Committee in Germany.Thus my desires and visions were concentrated on progress atthese different levels. Of course I especially had the dialoguewith the Roman Catholic Church in mind, with the hope that therewould be steps forward there as well as throughout the ecumenicalmovement.It has always been a particular concern of mine to see the LWF,not as fenced off from the other confessions or the ecumenicalcommunity, but rather in all its openness, and to develop theecumenical dimension of the confessional body. Of course thisincluded the particular situation in the world. The NinthAssembly took place relatively soon after the great revolutionarychange of 1989-90, which resulted in a new openness and removingboundaries, and this brought us the new challenges emerging fromconcerns such as globalization. We were confronted on one handwith numerous dangers, on the other, with new opportunitiesthrough electronic communications and cross-border trade.What was especially present to me in Hong Kong was the world-widenetwork of the LWF with its emphasis on direct diaconal action,its missionary approach to the Gospel, its theological profileand, as I said, especially its ecumenical breadth and openness.LWI: At your first press conference as LWF President, on 14 July1997 in Hong Kong, you said that confessional communities such asthe LWF had become more important than ever for the ecumenicalmovement. You warned against a pullback, since dialogues such asthe one on the doctrine of justification with the Roman CatholicChurch in particular are only possible between confessionalfamilies. What would your judgment be today?Krause: There is of course no question that, obviously,confessional issues have to be discussed and clarified betweenconfessional churches. Thus in reassessing the history oftheology and the church, dialogue between the historic churchesand confessions is extraordinarily important. To me it isespecially significant that the confessional world communionshave become more visible in recent years, and are reaching outmore to one another.The Roman Catholic Church, the churches of the Reformation, thatis the Reformed and Lutheran world bodies, the AnglicanCommunion, the Orthodox churches - these are important andindispensable poles especially for interconfessionalconversations, for seeking together, for the ecumenicalfellowship as a whole and thus also for the World Council ofChurches.LWI: On 31 October 1999 you were in Augsburg, Germany as one ofthe signatories to the Official Common Statement with which theJoint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification was solemnlyrecognized by the LWF and Roman Catholic Church. The dialoguewhich finally led to the Joint Declaration had lasted over 30years. Was this signing ceremony a high point of your presidency?Krause: For me, the 31 October 1999 is an extraordinarilyimportant date. The 30 years of dialogue show not only itssignificance, but also that it was high time for theseconversations, for at least a start towards overcoming thisalmost 500-year-old division. Augsburg was the place where, in1530, the rejection of the Confessio Augustana marked the failureof the last attempt at bridge-building. The dispute that followedcaused immeasurable suffering, enmities, the Counter-Reformation,the Thirty Years' War - one could go on and on. There was misuseof power in all sorts of ways, the Reformation was made aninstrument of politics and especially of conflict between thechurches of the Reformation and the Roman Catholic Church.What is remarkable is that the two sides in the dialogue havereached a consensus on basic truths. We are not trying tomonopolize the truth over against one another, but rather namingtogether that which is at the core of the Gospel, that is,justification by grace alone through faith, which is the centralsignificance of God's act of salvation. Nevertheless, the signingof the Joint Declaration does not mark a full stop, but rather acolon: we now have a basis on which to go further, and we must doso. The concept of reconciled diversity underlines our newrelationship after the long age of enmity.The signing of the Joint Declaration also showed that thecommunity within the LWF stands firmly together and, can take aunanimous position even in the face of differing opinions.LWI: What did the signing of the Joint Declaration change forLutheran and Catholic Christians? Just recently, at your farewellvisit to Pope John Paul II, you urged once again more intensiveefforts toward at least ecumenical hospitality at the Eucharist.Had you expected visible results to come sooner?Krause: My exhortation to move toward sharing the Eucharist, atleast in the sense of mutual ecumenical hospitality at the Lord'sTable, still stands. This is such a central witness to theChristian faith we share that I think we have reason to keepmentioning it. But I think it is completely wrong to concentrateexclusively on that which we do not yet have.We ought also to recognize all that which has already beenachieved. It is absolutely crucial that we are able to meettogether and have dealings with one another in mutual respect andalso in mutual trust. There will always continue to be setbacks,as is the nature of things among human beings and humaninstitutions. But I must say that the consensus on the basictruths of the faith has brought about a reconciliation andreadiness to meet one another which I can only describe asgratifying. In spite of all the differences which still remain,we must not lose sight of what we have in common.During my farewell visit in April with Pope John Paul II in Rome,and in my conversations with Walter Cardinal Kasper, I not onlyput a full emphasis on the question of the Eucharist, but alsoexpressly thanked them for standing with us on peace issues, forexample in our common actions with regard to the Iraq War and ourcommon stand on peace in the Middle East.In many countries in the world, Lutheran churches arecomparatively small compared to the Roman Catholic Church. Oftenthey have deliberately distanced themselves from one another inthe past. Since the signing of the Joint Declaration on theDoctrine of Justification I have experienced on many of mytravels throughout the world, that people now are no longerafraid to approach one another, and haven't simply filed away theJoint Declaration but are actively making use of it. They areholding joint worship services, and the churches are making theeffort to establish joint positions on political and socialissues which have to do with people's lives. I consider thesedevelopments as extraordinarily important.LWI: When you took office in 1997, the LWF had 122 memberchurches in 70 countries, with a total membership of about 57million; today it represents 136 member churches in 76 countries,with over 61.7 million members. What do you see as the continuingappeal that the LWF has?Krause: What is even more impressive is the number of foundingchurches. The LWF was founded in 1947 by 47 churches in 23countries. It then means that with regard to numbers of bothmember churches and countries, the LWF has almost tripled insize. But these figures also represent massive shifts insubstance. With few exceptions, the founding churches wereEuropean and North American, thus almost exclusively northAtlantic. Since 1947 the LWF's global network has extendedsubstantially to churches and countries in the southernhemisphere; there has been a shift in its center of gravity fromthe North toward the South. This seems to me to be the reallyserious difference, with considerable consequences for substance,both theological and ecclesiological.Our member churches are all looking for community, and the LWFoffers a community. Many of them are small, are isolated, andhave to find their way in their own countries and surroundings.For guidance, they look to their sister churches in neighboringcountries and throughout the world. In responding to the socialchallenges in their own local contexts, these churches alsoreceive support just like their governments do, and they canemphatically say, "We may be small, but we belong to a greatworld-wide communion."LWI: Since the 1984 Seventh Assembly in Budapest, Hungary, theLWF no longer sees itself as a loose federation, but as acommunion of churches. The new LWF Constitution adopted in 1990in Curitiba, Brazil says so. Is the LWF doing justice to thispurpose, and what are the consequences of thisself-understanding?Krause: That's an exciting question. That a greater degree ofcommunion, or of commitment, has been reached became visible in asustained way with regard to the signing of the Joint Declarationon the Doctrine of Justification. The LWF had to ask all themember churches, and they in turn had to involve their synods, ifthey were so constituted. And the vote was not absolutelyunanimous among all the member churches. The question then was,who decides? The recommendation of the overwhelming majority tothe LWF Council, after a careful theological evaluation of thevotes received, was to sign the Joint Declaration. The Councilthen voted unanimously in favor, and not one of the memberchurches protested. The communion stood the test.The question may be asked, how much authority is entrusted to acommunion by its individual churches. This was certainly a pointon which it became clear that here a stronger obligation was notonly desired; it was also possible. With regard to the discussionas to whether the LWF should call itself a communio, I am of theopinion that this needs to be defined very carefully. A higherdegree of commitment and of obligation to the LWF Communionshould in no case be expressed, first of all, in a strongercentralization in Geneva. We don't want and don't need a"Lutheran Rome."For me the critical questions are rather: can we take a stand onthe challenging issues of our day, and in doing so rely on oneanother and sustain our commitment to and for one another? Willour churches and people, in the midst of such bitter poverty aswe see reigning in two-thirds of the world, be willing to makestatements as a community - can they and should they haveconfidence in such a process? Or are these just emptydeclarations? It will be important to give a clear theologicalanswer to the question of what is the basis of our communio andwhether everyone shares in this. It is my impression that thegrowing differences between North and South, the economic gapbetween the winners and victims of globalization, as well as whatwe see in the ecumenical gap between the historic churches andthe charismatic communities, are the decisive test for such acommunio.LWI: While the Lutheran churches of the South are growing, someof them considerably, the membership figures of almost all thebig Lutheran churches in North America and Europe are continuingto decrease. What do you think is the cause of these contrastingdevelopments, and what can the churches learn from one another?Krause: In the churches of the North, our existential questionsare either very individualistic or out of touch with public life.In the South it's different. Questions of faith are alwaysdirected to the community and its life in common, and itssurvival. There is also a very natural relationship to themission of the church, and a totally natural way of carrying itout. Talking about one's own position as a believer, and livingaccording to it, is a matter of course and is not questioned inthe South.Many of the churches that have recently joined the LWF have grownout of the missions in Africa, for example the mission of thechurch in Tanzania or Namibia. This also plays a role in theirsocieties, in making the witness to Christ public, includingclear statements of one's positions; in expressing it in lively,colorful worship, and in taking for granted the witness to one'spersonal Christianity. This is what we in the North have oftenlost.Currently, the fastest growing Lutheran churches, and otherhistoric churches are those which succeed in integrating thecharismatic movements into their church lives. In the same periodof 30 years, the membership of the Evangelical Lutheran Church inBrunswick, Germany has dropped nearly 40 per cent, from about670,000 to 420,000, while in Ethiopia it has multiplied sixtimes, starting from 670,000, to over four million.Of course this raises the question of who is changing whom andwhat this means for the confessional world communion. The greatawakening of the charismatic faith movements in the southernhemisphere can only be seen, in my opinion, in the context ofpoverty and suffering. The Gospel is the Gospel of the poor, andthe cross is the sign of the church. It is in suffering that hopeappears, hope of overcoming sorrow and poverty. Entering into newlife through the cross - that is precisely opposed to thepleasure-seeking society.Moreover, we are faced today with the central task of finding ourway to an interreligious dialogue, of seeking, together withother religions, paths towards peace and the valuing of thecreation, and involving ourselves together in overcoming poverty,injustice and violence. It's the famous triad of justice, peaceand the integrity of creation. Here it is imperative that wereach out to one another with respect, with eagerness, and withthe desire to know one another. Equally important is to clarifyour own position: what do we actually stand for? And that'ssomething we can learn from the churches of the South - to takeour stand quite naturally on our own faith convictions, which arerooted in our own hearts, in public as well. In interreligiousdialogue, the LWF on the basis of its unique experience, shouldexplore to what extent the model of reconciled diversity ispossible beyond the fellowship of Christians, in the fellowshipamong religions.LWI: In the past six years you in person have visited many LWFmember churches. You have been to churches in every continent, inalmost every country of central and eastern Europe, and you werethe first LWF President to visit the churches of Papua NewGuinea. What impression have you gained of the world-wideLutheran community, and what have you been able to set in motionduring your travels?Krause: I have again and again experienced a great feeling thatwe all belong together, a downright family feeling, andunbelievable hospitality. To be at home everywhere where thereare Lutheran churches was a great, a marvelous feeling, for whichI am deeply grateful.The second point is that during my travels I have been ableemphasize over and over again to people that: You are part of agreater whole. In central and eastern Europe that has played amost important role at a practical level, there where the smallLutheran churches in the former countries behind the Iron Curtainhave to get their bearings all over again in post-communistsocieties. This touches almost all aspects of church life. Itincludes rebuilding their diaconal work, which in not a fewplaces was prohibited; pastoral work in prisons and the military,religious teaching in schools, church festivals and much more.Here the churches are also beginning to look at their role in thenew process of Europe's reunification.In many countries the visit of the LWF President was a time forconversations at the highest political level. This presented anopportunity to strengthen the governments' and political leaders'awareness of the important bridge-building function whichchurches can have within their own countries. One example isIndonesia, the country with the largest Muslim population in theworld and not inconsiderable tensions between Christians andMuslims. Here I was able to speak both with President Megawatiand with the leaders of Islamic organizations. Doors could beopened in a way, often not possible locally for the smallerchurches. These experiences gave me a feel for the importance,for these churches, of belonging to a world communion and ofmaking its presence known.I have always thought of my visits also as expressly pastoral. Itwas clear that I could not accept every invitation. But I gavepriority to those from churches which were going through adifficult time or faced immediate challenges, for exampleLutheran churches which were or are threatened with schism. Hereit is important that we from the world-wide communion can atleast offer a table at which the parties to the conflict can sitdown together.LWI: The Ninth Assembly in 1997 had the theme "In Christ - Calledto Witness" - it was the last Assembly of the 20th century andthe first on the continent of Asia. What do you hope will be theimpetus of the Tenth Assembly in Winnipeg, Canada, July 21-31, onthe theme "For the Healing of the World"?Krause: The theme of the Tenth Assembly is surprisingly andextraordinarily relevant for today. After the revolution of1989-90, we hoped we had come closer together. The East-Westconflict was over, walls had fallen down and thresholds werebeing lowered. And then burst forth those things which weprobably hadn't noticed properly, hidden under the crust of theEast-West conflict - the huge rift between rich and poor,disregard for human rights, conflicts between religions and newoutbreaks of violence. This means that "For the Healing of theWorld" must be an occasion for us to see where the decisivebreaks, wounds and cracks are which weigh us down and demand ourattention.The second very crucial point is to make it clear whence our helpcomes. Here the doctrine of justification will again play anessential role, also in its social ethics aspect: there is nojustice without grace. We must truly pray to God for the healingof the world, hope for it and expect it from God, and thus setout together to be Jesus' disciples.LWI: How do you see the future? In the year 2017 the Lutherancommunion will celebrate the 500th anniversary of the beginningof the Reformation: in 2022 the LWF will celebrate its 75thanniversary. Where will the LWF be by then; how may it havechanged and developed?Krause: Well, there we can only speak in terms of a vision. Isuspect that the movements of the South will cause parochial waysof being church, with their institutions and structures, torecede further in favor of spiritual movements. Even thetraditional well-ordered Lutheran churches will become more likespiritual revival churches. They may become smaller in theprocess, but I think they will come to have more the character ofmovements. Here a Lutheran World Federation must be first of allthe linking place, and have a serving function, to makeworld-wide communion possible in such a process.This will go together with a reduction in the role of the LWF asan inter-church service organization. The main question will be,what can each of us contribute, from our situation, that we canshare with others? And how do we preserve our communio on thecommon foundation of Reformation theology? More use must be madeof the global aspect of this tool we have in our hands, the LWF.This will also help to promote communion amongst our ecumenicalpartners.How the WCC changes will also make a lot of difference. It toowill have to take in more of the charismatic, spiritualistmovements, as it is already making efforts to do. I hope that astronger association will be possible with them, and that the LWFtogether with the other confessional world communions and the WCCwill be able to combine the critical functions of theology withthe missionary revival of the more charismatic churches andcommunities.What I also hope for is that we can sit down at one table withpeople of the different religions and seek ways to peace. In thisconnection I hope that a Lutheran World Federation, however itmay be put together as an organization, will contribute to thedefense against every form of fundamentalism, and will help topromote common positions for world peace. So it is there that Isee the future of the LWF: to serve as a platform for dialogue,but not just for dialogue's sake, but for the sake of life. Thatwould be a changed, a very active Lutheran World Federation, andcertainly no longer a primarily North Atlantic one.(LWI Editor Dirk-Michael Groetzsch, conducted the original Germanlanguage interview with the LWF President, Bishop emeritus DrChristian Krause.)(The LWF is a global communion of Christian churches in theLutheran tradition. Founded in 1947 in Lund (Sweden), the LWF nowhas 136 member churches in 76 countries representing over 61.7million of the 65.4 million Lutherans worldwide. The LWF acts onbehalf of its member churches in areas of common interest such asecumenical and interfaith relations, theology, humanitarianassistance, human rights, communication, and the various aspectsof mission and development work. Its secretariat is located inGeneva, Switzerland.)[Lutheran World Information (LWI) is LWF's information service.Unless specifically noted, material presented does not representpositions or opinions of the LWF or of its various units. Wherethe dateline of a article contains the notation (LWI), thematerial may be freely reproduced with acknowledgment.]* * *LUTHERAN WORLD INFORMATIONPO Box 2100, CH-1211 Geneva 2, SwitzerlandEnglish Editor: Pauline MumiaE-mail: pmu@lutheranworld.orgTel: (41.22) 791.63.54Fax: (41.22) 791.66.30http://www.lutheranworld.org/
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